Who want's to know where the rifle is that murdered "Bikie" Billy Grierson?

Who want's to know where the rifle is that murdered "Bikie" Billy Grierson?

Terence Mclernon

Published on 29 Apr 2018

SUBSCRIBE 51

Who want's to know where the rifle is that murdered "Bikie" Billy Grierson by "Bent Cop" Don Hancock?? Don Hancock...

"A bloody bent cop" now 17 years dead... Donald Leslie Hancock lost his head on his way home from the races!!

Landed on his roof... The thing is what happened to the rifle he used to shoot the 'bikie' at Ora Banda????? My information may be right. Maybe wrong!!

 Maybe right!!

Wapol may have found it?

May not care too much! I was told by a person of ill repute... but let's face it that's the type of person who would know...

just like I found very relevant witnesses who gave "startling new evidence" before the coronial inquiry into Shirley Finn murder namely, Maxwell Healy and Bob Meyers.

 Read the papers on them...

I had given their names to all and indeed Max's affidavit was forwarded by me to all and sundry, including Detective Rainford of Wapol.

 I insisted to all and more the Bob Meyers must be subpoenaed to tell all...

They finally did and Gee Whizz they did have a lot to say. Didn't they...

I wonder if Wapol will bother to contact myself via email at terencemclernon@gmail.com

 Affidavit of Maxwell Raymond Healy:

 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7-... 

'90 per cent' of the police force knew who killed Shirley Finn - WA Today:

 http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/90-... 

'Feared' WA detective central to Shirley Finn murder investigation dies: https://www.smh.com.au/national/weste... 

Death of former detective stirs hope of truth in unsolved Shirley Finn murder case: https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/death-... 

A police whistleblower in a corrupt political system - Brian Martin:

 http://www.bmartin.cc/dissent/documen... Shirley Finn inquest: Man ‘beaten close to death’ by detective: https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/crim... 

Gypsy Joker sniper shooting mystery: https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/... 

Cop's daughter denies gun comment: https://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/... 

"The daughter of a retired detective who was the prime suspect in the shooting death of a bikie has denied telling a customer in her father's pub that he had gone to fetch a gun after an argument with a gang. Alison Hancock, daughter of former Perth CIB chief Don Hancock, was working behind the bar in the Ora Banda Historic Inn on October 1, 2000 - the day Gypsy Joker member Billy Grierson was killed by a single rifle shot" The Fifth Estate/Chapter 13: The Duck 'Bills' The Fox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTkK2... 1:14

 Justice For all! Terence Mclernon 211 views 3:38

 Shirley Finn/Cop Kill. Terence J. McLernon and the Corionial Inquiry. Terence Mclernon 1.8K views

 8:25 The Death of Bernie "The Bear" Johnson Terence Mclernon 13 views

6:20 Big Brass Bold Balls: The Fifth Estate, Book One/Chapter 10. Terence Mclernon

424 views

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Colin Burns Pace/The Fifth Estate Book 1 Chapter 15 Terence Mclernon 1.3K views

The Wild West, Corruption At It's Very Best: Part 1 Terence Mclernon 577 views

Terry Fibber Forger, Joshua Jr Magee & Colin Circles Pace and the Subiaco Farmer Jacks armed hold up Terence Mclernon

247 views

Veterans Affairs A National Disgrace/ Jay 360 Terence Mclernon

501 views

Murder Mystery 9 News Perth 2.1K views Corrupt ex-detective Carl Casilli to face jail Part 1 (Part 2 link at bottom of description) Terence Mclernon

392 views

INTRODUCING COLIN "CIRCLES" PACE DISGRACED Terence Mclernon 669 views

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 The Terry Magee Files Terence Mclernon 472 views Cop vs Cop/Straight Arrow vs 3 Monkey's Terence Mclernon 371 views

Shirley Finn/Cop Kill Part 2. The Maxwell Raymond Affidavit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7P7q...

Perth Police corruption at Crown Casino. Umit Gungor Peter Ross. PC Allan Ball PC Casey Kirstein

Innocentweddingguest

Published on Jul 7, 2016

SUBSCRIBE 373

You can help stop this happening again. Please email: Still no arrest? www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgIU3OW_VCo

To: Commissioner McKechnie info@ccc.wa.gov.au Premier McGowan wa-government@dpc.wa.gov.au

Or better still, email them and tell them what you think! Thanks!

 

 

 

PROOF Police Departments are CORRUPT

 

5,628,144 views

Marc Hustle

Published on Dec 30, 2017

The Mafia in Australia Pt-1 - Drugs, Murder and Politics (PART 1 of2 )

BORDER OF CHAOS 1 aka Mik

Published on Dec 14, 2015

The Mafia in Australia Pt-2 - **Blood Ties** (Drugs,Murder,Politics)-(PART 2 OF 2

BORDER OF CHAOS 1 aka Mik

Published on Dec 15, 2015

Claremont serial killings: Sarah Spiers’ friend hopes remains will be found

Angela Pownall, News Corp Australia Network- December 27, 2016

 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/claremont-serial-killings-sarah-spiers-friend-hopes-remains-will-be-found/news-story/21cde6933aafd13a378dd1c89aff974a

 

A friend of Sarah Spiers has spoken of her hope that the teenager’s remains will be found. Picture: Simon Santi/The West Australian

A FRIEND of Sarah Spiers, the first suspected victim of the Claremont serial killer who has been missing for almost 21 years, has spoken of her hope that the teenager’s remains will be found.

Brodie Hudson, who became friends with Ms Spiers after the pair met at secretarial college, said she was a beautiful person with a dry sense of humour who looked like she “had love behind her eyes”.

Ms Hudson, 38, said last week’s news that Bradley Robert Edwards had been charged with the murders of Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon — who were abducted in Claremont in the 13 months after Ms Spiers and were later found dead — was a shock and she was grateful to police for not forgetting about the three women.

Sarah Spiers' friend Brodie Hudson says she is grateful to WA Police for the breakthrough in the cold case. Picture: Simon Santi/The West Australian

“I really hope they find her. It’s been such a horrible long time,” she said. “You can’t really truly grieve because you’ve got nothing. They (Ms Spiers’ family) still have unanswered questions.”

Mr Edwards has also been charged over two other sex attacks, but he has not been charged over Ms Spiers’ disappearance. Police Commissioner Karl O’Callaghan said last week that the investigation into the disappearance and suspected murder of Ms Spiers on January 27, 1996, was ongoing.

RELATED: Cold case search goes on

Ms Hudson said Ms Spiers and a friend came to Perth from country WA to study at Olympia Business College in Perth’s CBD and then find work.

“There were six of us girls who were quite close. She was in our group. We were all young girls just trying to figure out what we wanted to do,” she said.

“Sarah was really cool. She was just a beautiful person. I remember always thinking I really hope she likes me, just because she was such a lovely girl. She was really funny and very dry with her humour.”

Sarah Spiers is the first suspected victim of the Claremont serial killer. Picture: Supplied

Ms Spiers was a former Iona Presentation College boarder, who was working as a secretary at town planners BSD Consultants in Subiaco when she went missing.

Ms Hudson, who was just turning 17 when she first met Ms Spiers, said there was disbelief when she disappeared on January 27 1996 after leaving Club Bay View to wait for a taxi on Stirling Highway.

“We were just in shock. We were like ‘this can’t be happening’ because it was just surreal,” she said. “She wasn’t that type of person to disappear. She would always check in.”

Ms Hudson felt that sense of shock again on Friday, when it was revealed police had charged Mr Edwards and were searching properties connected to him.

“When I saw on the news the police going into his parents’ house with shovels, I just started crying. You know they’re looking for evidence. That’s the reality,” she said.

Originally published as ‘You can’t grieve, you’ve got nothing’

THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND THE CLAREMONT SERIAL KILLINGS BY DEBI MARSHALL

Updated on October 14, 2011

#










http://spicyhit.com/en/literature/the-devil-s-playground-the-claremont-serial-killings-by-debi-marshall

Video of the mystery man. The last person to see Jane Rimmer alive

The Devils Garden Author Debi Marshall Missing and never founed- Sarah Spiers Found murdered in the bush near Wellard, Jane Rimmer Found murdered in the bush north of Perth, Ciara Glennon. Video of the wanted mystery man Haayley dodd, missing feared murdered- she may be a victim of the same serial killer The three girls, all abducted and murdered Corrupt cop David Caphorn Mark Dixie, a suspect murdered his girlfriend Sally Anne Bowman murdered by Mark Dixie

An inept police force unable to stop a killer

This book is a literary documentary by investigative journalist Debi Marshall into the Claremont Serial Killings Police Investigation in Perth in Western Australia. To this day the killings which occurred in 1995/6 have never been solved.

In 1995 three girls went missing in the wealthy, fairly serene and innocent, leafy outer western suburb of Perth, Claremont. Sarah Spiers, 18, went missing on 26 January 1996.On 9 June 1996, Jane Rimmer, 23 went missing and was found dead at Woolcott Road at Wellard on August 1996, she was a child care worker.

Her body was found on 3 April, near a track in scrub off Pipidinny Road in Eglinton, a northern suburb of Perth. All spent a Friday or Saturday evening at both the Claremont Hotel and Club Bayview a nightclub close by. On 14 March 1997, Ciara Glennon, a 27-year-old lawyer

A twist though is that CCTV in club Bayview picked up Jane Rimmer talking to a mystery man who has never been identified. All the hundreds of other people in the club that night were identified, hunted down and interviewed. The mystery man was the last person to see her alive and police are still searching for him.

It is thought at least three other girls were also possible victims of the Claremont Serial Killer. 22 year old Julie Cutler went missing in 1988 from the same area. Her Volkswagen car was bizarrely found floating in the surf at Cottesloe beach the day after she went missing, she was never seen again. 17 year old Hayley Maree Dodd went missing in Badgingarra on, a country town about 50 kilometres west of Perth in 1997, while hitching a ride on the road.

Circumstances- Hayley made a telephone call at 10.30am on Thursday 29/7/1999 and was given a lift by a lady to the North West Road, Badgingarra, WA. She was then sighted by a motorist on the North West Road walking towards the farm where she was going at 11.35am on the same day. That was the last sighting of her. At the time of her disappearance she was wearing, light brown hiking boots, blue denim jeans, black v-neck top, grey men's jacket with a hood, silver sunglasses and carrying a light brown backpack with the word " EQUIP" on the flap.

The book covers the controversial, and sometimes ridiculous methods the police used in their search for the Claremont serial killer. Initially it was thought the girls were taken by a taxi driver, so the police interviewed and took DNA samples from every taxi driver in Perth. There were over 1500 of them. Police then had local businesses print, and donate wanted, and information posters in regard to the horrific crime, and had them handed out or posted all over Perth. This author owned a company called Eureka printing at the time and donated 10,000 posters.

The state government then introduced a one million dollar reward, and the Macro Taskforce was formed. Headed by Detective Paul Ferguson, who later had to resign from this position, as he was charged with the rape of two prostitutes and later acquitted. He was later accused of stealing a dealers drugs, and again nothing happened to him. The next head of the task force was corrupt cop David Caporn.

Controversially and rather stupidly this taskforce invited members of the public to ring in and nominate suspects. These mostly innocent people were then interviewed and DNA tested, in other words harassed. There were over 4000 suspects! . I was later nominated as a suspect and interviewed and DNA tested only to be cleared and then 15 years later interviewed again and cleared in June, 2011 as were another 2000 innocent men! I am not happy about it.

The ironic part about this is I was living in Perth at the time of course and had rung the police nominating a suspect of my own. A promiscuous, eccentric, lawyer mate of mine had started acting rather suspiciously. He had come to my home at 4 am one morning and broke down crying drunk in front of my wife and I, claiming he had killed somebody, but when questioned further he would not elaborate.

The matter was forgotten until much later, when this blokes wife informed me that he had been at Club Bayview and the Claremont Hotel the nights all three girls went missing. He also had in his possession a replica 9mm Beretta which I had lent him. I reported all this to the police and he was investigated but refused to provide DNA or account for his whereabouts on the nights of the killings and abductions. He is still a suspect to this day. This author has since had discussions with the author of this book, Debi Marshall and made a full written statement to her.

David Caphorn the head of this investigation then focused his attention on a male public servant caught suspiciously cruising the streets of Claremont late at night several nights in a row. This person was relentlessly followed and harassed by police for weeks. He was questioned at length and his house was searched and his car and phone bugged. He was innocent. He is still a suspect. The investigation into this man was badly thought out, blinkered and hampered by the tunnel vision of Detective David Caphorn.

Detective Caphorn had a history of this type of behaviour. In later years he had negative findings registered against him by the West Australian Crime and Corruption Commission for framing an innocent man for murder. Andrew Mallard served 12 years in jail before they realised he was innocent and had been framed, eventually they found the real killer Simon Rochford, who had already been convicted of murdering his girlfriend and was in jail. He killed himself when they found out about the second murder.

The police then continue to harass another innocent Perth resident Claremont psychiatrist Peter Weygers, also the lord Mayor of Claremont who had been critical of police publicly. A twist in the story is that he was a suspect because he was renting his house out to a taxi driver mate of his, who because of his suspicious actions, had attracted police attention, and was a leading suspect.

This story has some weird and interesting twists and turns, and when you think you have heard it all the police make a shocking revelation. When asked by the author it they had DNA material from the murder crime scenes to compare DNA they were collecting from suspects, the answer was a positive no. Why then had they spent thousands of man hours and millions of dollars harassing the frightened, and totally innocent men of Perth?

The answer was that in the future, the police hoped that science and technology may have advanced to the point where they could extract DNA from crime scene exhibits they held from the killings. This was a huge long-shot and showed how totally helpless and inept the police and the investigation really was.

In October 2006, it was announced that Mark Dixie (AKA Shane Turner),who was convicted in the United Kingdom for the 2005 murder of 18-year-old model Sally Anne Bowman is a prime suspect in the killings, and the WA Police's Macro Taskforce has requested DNA samples from Dixie to test against evidence taken during the enquiry.

Debi Marshal fell out with the police in a big way over this book. The story is so sad and frustrating but one that must be told. Nobody has ever been caught for these killings but as mentioned above the police are still questioning innocent men by the thousands and have no idea what they are doing. Well investigated. Well written and well worth a read.

A fantastic story about a serial killer on the loose in Perth, Western Australia

The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings by Debi Marshall (2007-06-01) Buy Now 

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Comments 8 comments

Andrew 3 years ago

I sent information to the police, but it's been ignored. I give you one name and one clue.... drug dealer.... Stockely Davis

Clarise 3 years ago

I am English, and believe you must look at serial killer Mark Dixie who is in Long Lartin prison Worc's to rot for the rest of his vile day's take a good look at this sociopath. He was in Perth at this time, also girls would have accepted a lift from a man with an English accent.

Parkie 3 years ago

East of Parkie amphitheatre..

Parkie 3 years ago

Oops I mean West..

wildchild1962 3 years ago from Geraldton Author

Parkie, what exactly is west of Parkie Ampitheatre, be more specific, what are you telling us? How far West? That's a big area be more specific

eyes 23 months ago

I will write my own book about Claremont serial killer and I bet it would be more accurate when done .

Police corruption is a specific form of police misconduct sometimes involving political corruption, and generally designed to gain a financial or political benefit for a police officer or officers in exchange for not pursuing, or selectively pursuing, an investigation or arrest.

An example is police officers accepting bribes in exchange for not reporting organized drug or prostitution rings or other illegal activities.

Police corruption can involve a single officer or group of officers, or can be the standard practice of entire police precincts or departments. In most major cities there are internal affairs sections to investigate suspected police corruption or misconduct. However, sometimes the corruption is so widespread that investigation requires an external body with far reaching powers, such as a Royal Commission.

    Read Cop Watch IN THE PRESS ROOM                        
      What are the police doing to make an extra dollar when not on duty....?

Mickelberg brothers vow to fight on

Hamish Fitzsimmons for The 7.30 Report

Updated 19 Jan 2008

 Ray and Peter Mickelberg now released from wrogfully spending years in jail for a crime they did not commit, having been framer of Western Australian Police Officers, including the late Don Hancock and other police officers as well as the Director of the Office of Pubic Prosecutions and his various prosecution staff ..

PHOTO: Ray and Peter Mickelberg received ex-gratia payments of $500,000 each after serving more than eight and six years in jail respectively. (File photo) (ABC TV)

VIDEO: Mickelberg brothers find unlikely ally (7.30)

EXTERNAL LINK: 7.30 website

MAP: Perth 6000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-01-19/mickelberg-brothers-vow-to-fight-on/1017342

This week, the Western Australian Government tried to close the book on one of the country's longest running legal battles when it paid out $1 million to two brothers wrongfully convicted of the infamous Perth mint swindle in 1982.

Ray and Peter Mickelberg received ex-gratia payments of $500,000 each after serving more than eight and six years in jail respectively.

Their convictions were overturned in 2004 but they say the payment does not even come close to covering their costs in clearing their names and they have vowed to press on with civil action against the police officers involved in the case.

More than 25 years after their wrongful conviction in one of WA's longest running legal sagas, Ray and Peter Mickelberg have received the largest ex-gratia payment in the history of WA.

But rather than ending the matter, the payment has made the brothers even more determined to continue their legal battle.

Ray Mickelberg says he and his brother lost much more than $500,000.

"We lost our families, we lost our homes, we lost our jobs, we've lost the lot and then the Government offers us $500,000, knowing we lost the lot," he said.

"We haven't asked for much more, we just said, 'Give us back what you took from us.' They couldn't even do that. That's the type of justice that exists in WA."

Peter Mickelberg agrees.

"Ray and I have been fighting this case for 25 years so when you work it out on that basis and put it in that perspective at $20,000 a year, it's not a hell of a lot of money," he said.

In 1982, in what police described as a heist executed with daring and precision, the Perth Mint was defrauded of $650,000 worth of gold bullion.

The case had the element offences of a Hollywood movie, tough cops bent on getting a conviction, an SAS and Vietnam veteran, and hundreds of thousands of missing gold.

Weeks after the heist, Ray, Peter and Brian Mickelberg were arrested and charged. They were convicted in 1983.

"This is how naive we were, on the morning that I was taken for trial I said to my wife and kids, I kissed them good bye and said,'I'll see you tonight'," Ray Mickelberg said.

"I didn't see my family again for eight-and-a-half years."

Evidence fabricated

Former soldier Ray Mickelberg served eight years in jail.

His brother Peter Mickelberg served six-and-a-half years, while another brother, Brian Mickelberg, served nine months before he died in a plane crash in 1986.

In 2002, one of the investigating police officers Tony Lewandowski, confessed that he and another senior officer, Don Hancock, fabricated the evidence against the brothers and that he and Detective Hancock had beaten Peter Mickelberg.

Mr Lewandowski was charged and sent to trial over the matter.

"All I really want to say is that I'm certainly going to fulfil my agreement with the court and see the matter through to the end," Mr Lewandowski said in 2002.

But after the charges were thrown out of court, Mr Lewandowski committed suicide in 2004. Later that year the Mickelberg brothers' convictions were quashed.

The state's Attorney-General Jim McGinty believed the million-dollar payment washes the Government's hands of the case.

"I'm very pleased this brings to an end the Mickelberg saga, so far as the State Government is concerned," he said.

"Altogether, $1.65 million a has now been paid to the Mickelbergs, $500,000 each plus $658,000 has already been paid to meet their legal expenses in mounting both their 1998 and 2004 appeal."

But the police and Mickelbergs now find themselves agreeing that the case is far from over.

"These police officers at the time were employed by Government. He cannot get away from the fact that the Government has responsibility for them," Mike Dean, from the police union, said.

Ray Mickelberg says they have been left with no other choice.

"The decision by the Attorney-General and Government has now left us no alternative other than to go forward in our action against the police," he said.

Civil action

The Mickelberg civil action is against the estates of Mr Lewandowski and Mr Hancock and five other officers who were involved in the case.

Ray Mickelberg says they hope it will be the fair and open trial they feel they never had.

"Every police officer involved will be called, this time they'll be properly cross-examined," he said.

Mr Dean, from the police union, believes the Government may be dragged back into the case, if not by the Mickelbergs, then by the police officers.

"The Attorney-General had the opportunity to finally close and put this entire matter to bed. He should have taken that option," he said.

"[By] essentially by paying them enough money to get rid of the entire case."

Mr McGinty does not agree.

"That is ultimately a private matter between the Mickelbergs and those individuals, their civil action will not involve the state and there will be no comeback against the state," he said.

Police say the Perth mint swindle is still an open case and no one may ever know who stole the gold.

"My view is that it will never be resolved. The truth got lost many years ago," Mr Dean said.

But the Mickelbergs say they know one thing - justice is something they have had to fight almost a lifetime for and they have chosen another potentially lengthy legal battle.

"If you take us on, be prepared for major, major fight, and we say this now to Mick Dean and the Government. It is not over," Ray Mickelberg said.

His brother Peter says: "It has consumed our lives to the extent that we haven't had much of a life in 25 years."

Topics: courts-and-trials,law-crime-and-justice, crime, prisons-and-punishment, perth-6000, australia, wa

Mint robbers were framed

Running for justice ... one of the three Mickelberg brothers, Peter, chases the then CIB chief, Don Hancock, down the street after losing an appeal in the Perth Supreme Court in February 1999. Photo: WA News

By Liza Kappelle - June 11 2002

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/06/10/1022982819650.html

A former police officer has admitted that he and another detective lied and faked evidence during the trial of the Mickelberg brothers for the Perth Mint gold swindle 20 years ago.

The West Australian Attorney-General, Jim McGinty, said yesterday that Anthony Lewandowski had given an affidavit to the Director of Public Prosecutions admitting he and the former CIB chief Don Hancock, who was murdered last year, had lied and fabricated evidence to convict the Mickelbergs.

Raymond, Peter and Brian Mickelberg were convicted in 1983 of swindling $650,000 worth of gold from the mint.

Raymond, a former SAS soldier, was released from jail in 1991 after serving eight years of a 20-year sentence. Peter served six years of a 14-year sentence.

Brian Mickelberg had his conviction overturned after nine months in jail. He died in a helicopter crash in 198

Raymond and Peter Mickleberg made four unsuccessful attempts to have their convictions overturned - three appeals to the Court of Criminal Appeal, at which Mr Lewandowski and Mr Hancock testified, and an appeal to the High Court.

Mr McGinty said Mr Lewandowski had admitted that he and Mr Hancock had fabricated confessions from the brothers, and had lied at the trial and the appeals.

He had also admitted that Peter Mickelberg was stripped naked and beaten by interviewing officers during the investigation.

Mr Lewandowski had said he had not come forward earlier because he had not wanted to cross Mr Hancock, who died in a car bombing in what police believe was a payback killing by Gypsy Joker bikie gang members after the murder of a gang member in 2000.

Mr McGinty said Mr Lewandowski's belated admission - if it were truthful - would strike at the heart of public confidence in the justice system.

"This is one of the most high-profile police investigations we have seen in Western Australia, and if it was found that convictions were obtained by police fabricating evidence, the ramifications are enormous."

Mr McGinty has referred Mr Lewandowski's affidavit to the royal commission into alleged police corruption, which is due to recommence hearings on July 1.

The robbery on June 22, 1982, was the most audacious ever staged in Perth - an ingenious swindle which saw 49 gold bars spirited out of the impregnable Mint to a mystery hiding place.

Although the evidence against the Mickelbergs was compelling - in particular Ray Mickelberg's fingerprint on one of three fake cheques used to pay for the gold - the brothers insisted from the start that the police had framed them.

They said the detectives, led by Don Hancock, had lied at their trial in the District Court, had fabricated confessions by all three, and had planted the damning fingerprint.

It would have been easy for the police to get hold of a mould of Ray's finger, they said. One of his hobbies was casting hands, in brass, plastic, rubber and perspex.

There were about 20 of the hands in his Marmion Beach home when the police first arrived, and several were taken away for inspection.

In 1989, 55 kilograms of gold pellets, said to have been from the swindle, were found outside a Perth television station, accompanied by a note protesting the Mickelberg brothers' innocence and claiming tha

STRANGE AUSTRALIAN JUSTICE
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5228330,00.jpg&imgrefurl=http://stju.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html&usg=__e1z6GBhKBkuHGgCvhG1JFSgwl2c=&h=240&w=350&sz=15&hl=en&start=18&sig2=o3b5vlnfFlg5UMG3G2vsSg&tbnid=qo3GTGAaPogzUM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq=peter%2Bmickleberg%26gbv=2%26hl%3Den%26sa=G&ei=xmvvSqCLMJ2TjAfFlcisDQ

Shameful Mickleberg case in Australia: Justice still being sought


The case of the forged fingerprint

Two brothers jailed over the infamous 1982 Perth Mint swindle are suing a former government minister over their wrongful convictions. Ray, Peter and the late Brian Mickelberg were convicted in 1983 of defrauding the Perth Mint of $653,000 in gold bullion in exchange for worthless cheques.

Ray, who served eight years of a 20-year jail sentence, and Peter, who spent six years behind bars for the scam, fought for years before a legal appeal was successful and their convictions were overturned in 2004. The success of their eighth appeal was largely due to a confession by corrupt detective Tony Lewandowski, who admitted that detectives, including lead detective Don Hancock, had fabricated evidence.

After their conviction was overturned, the Mickelbergs launched a civil suit against the West Australian government and six police officers involved in their case for an estimated $11 million in compensation. News Ltd reported the Mickelberg brothers were now also suing former police assistant commissioner and Labor minister Bob Kucera over their wrongful conviction. The latest suit comes after the brothers reportedly bought for $5,000 a box of sensitive police documents that were found at Lewandowski's ex-girlfriend's home in Thailand.

Mr Kucera, who was not one of the detectives involved in the case, has been accused of being part of the police conspiracy to support the Mickelbergs' wrongful conviction. Two of the detectives closely involved in the case have since died, Mr Hancock was killed in a bikie car bomb attack in September 2001, and Lewandowski committed suicide in May 2004. Brian Mickelberg had his conviction overturned after nine months jail. He died in a light plane crash in 1986

Report here


Background on the case:


Raymond and Peter Mickleberg made four unsuccessful attempts to have their convictions overturned - three appeals to the Court of Criminal Appeal, at which Mr Lewandowski and Mr Hancock testified, and an appeal to the High Court. 

Mr McGinty said Mr Lewandowski had admitted that he and Mr Hancock had fabricated confessions from the brothers, and had lied at the trial and the appeals. He had also admitted that Peter Mickelberg was stripped naked and beaten by interviewing officers during the investigation. 

Mr Lewandowski had said he had not come forward earlier because he had not wanted to cross Mr Hancock, who died in a car bombing in what police believe was a payback killing by Gypsy Joker bikie gang members after the murder of a gang member in 2000. Mr McGinty said Mr Lewandowski's belated admission - if it were truthful - would strike at the heart of public confidence in the justice system. "This is one of the most high-profile police investigations we have seen in Western Australia, and if it was found that convictions were obtained by police fabricating evidence, the ramifications are enormous." Mr McGinty has referred Mr Lewandowski's affidavit to the royal commission into alleged police corruption, which is due to recommence hearings on July 1. 

The robbery on June 22, 1982, was the most audacious ever staged in Perth - an ingenious swindle which saw 49 gold bars spirited out of the impregnable Mint to a mystery hiding place. Although the evidence against the Mickelbergs was compelling - in particular Ray Mickelberg's fingerprint on one of three fake cheques used to pay for the gold - the brothers insisted from the start that the police had framed them. They said the detectives, led by Don Hancock, had lied at their trial in the District Court, had fabricated confessions by all three, and had planted the damning fingerprint. 

It would have been easy for the police to get hold of a mould of Ray's finger, they said. One of his hobbies was casting hands, in brass, plastic, rubber and perspex. There were about 20 of the hands in his Marmion Beach home when the police first arrived, and several were taken away for inspection. 

In 1989, 55 kilograms of gold pellets, said to have been from the swindle, were found outside a Perth television station, accompanied by a note protesting the Mickelberg brothers' innocence and claiming that a prominent Perth businessman was behind the swindle.

Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia #10 P.1


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?325918-Australia-Claremont-Serial-Killer-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-10

Tilbury was convicted in 1971 for the murder of Lynette Robeson and again in 1989 for the murder of Vanessa Devlin.


bessie - WS Administrator


Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #10
Claremont serial killer breakthrough: Bradley Robert Edwards, 48, SMILES as he appears in court charged with the murder of two women - as police investigation continues into third unsolved case that shocked Australia
By Lucy Mae Beers and Cindy Tran and Riley Morgan For Daily Mail Australia and Aap
Published: 20:16 EST, 22 December 2016 | Updated: 07:13 EST, 23 December 2016

Claremont serial killings: stolen kimono helped lead police to arrest
December 23, 2016 10:50pm

How the Claremont serial killer changed Perth
Jenna Clarke
December 24, 2016

Claremont Serial Killer: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION* 

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #9
Last edited by bessie; 01-03-2017 at 04:49 AM.
Muddy water in the street; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"

WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK
 
bessie - WS Administrator

Thread #10 is now open for posting. Proceed with caution. If you can't hold your tongue, then find somewhere else to fight. And if another member insults or offends you, and you CHOOSE to argue back, you are on your own. Admin can't help you because now you're also in the wrong.聽

Alert the post, sit on your hands, and MOVE ON.

This post is for the benefit of all, and for no one in particular.

Another reminder: you're free to join any group you wish outside of WS. You cannot, however, invite or solicit other WS members to join. For that matter, you cannot post about it at all. If you owned a store, would you allow me to stand in the doorway and send your customers away? I think not. So, no more slack. Zero tolerance. And if you're found to be bashing WS or its members on another site, you automatically will be banned from WS.
 
Froglady 
Please don't get this shut down guys!!!! Thank you Bessie for opening it back up
Rest in peace Erica Parsons.  
JoeDetective 
Originally Posted by Froglady  
Please don't get this shut down guys!!!! Thank you Bessie for opening it back up
There are people intentionally trying to derail the thread; it will happen again, its inevitable, sadly.
Last edited by JoeDetective; 01-03-2017 at 02:13 AM.
styzr

Hoping to hear more from 3blindmice. That girl was last seen on 8th October 1999, which was a Friday. 
Did you guys work every day while in Kal? If not, did you all have the same days off or was there a roster? 
Did BE never join you for after work drinks or was that out of character? 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SherlockSleuth
With regard to the Kalgoorlie murder it's possible that, even if a killer (or someone who'd fantasised about killing) had nothing to do with that particular murder, that they might react 'funnily' if someone made a joke about them killing. 

I think 3blindmice's revelation has been perhaps the most revealing that I've read personally, on this site. And no, I've not read all the threads. Sorry.
 
Froglady
Originally Posted by JoeDetective  
There are people intentionally trying to derail the thread; it will happen again, its inevitable, sadly.
Ignore and press alert for the admin.
Rest in peace Erica Parsons.  
mandy.maree 
  Originally Posted by styzr  
Hoping to hear more from 3blindmice. That girl was last seen on 8th October 1999, which was a Friday. 
Did you guys work every day while in Kal? If not, did you all have the same days off or was there a roster? 
Did BE never join you for after work drinks or was that out of character? 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im very interested too.
Have thought in past maybe BE had a bit of a love for alcohol from things in yearbook and just from his appearance and likes but...maybe it was quite the opposite .Maybe he actually hated the stuff (maybe even from his own previous issues with it).
Wouldn't think it would be wise for him to drink either way. May have let something slip or said something a bit off.
Alcohol sure has an ability to make most say things they would rather not and with secrets as big as his,I'd be surprised if he drank much.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

MingMong 
Reply to Niall for post #1056
sorry guys explanation for my tardiness in the middle - - and two parts to post."..

I have a good memory for some things, but a lot eludes me, trust me on that! 
I do just remember something about the Dalziel St murder (must of been the flats, as the only other house was 'the sandy mans' from memory). However, some details of the other one I'm recalling are more clear to me. 
Ok, I can tell you this. The girl was found in the house at 1995 Albany Hwy Maddington, which was diagonally opposite what used to be Stokley station. I can not recall her name, however I know that on my school group someone had mentioned the fact 'so & so' had been murdered and I asked "was that in the house opposite Stokley station?" and he'd confirmed it was (this convo was some years ago now). I will need to go on my FB to research a name of the girl, and that can only a occur in a week or so after my data resets. I'm already 4gb over. It's also one reason I'm sporadic on here, the other being is that I'm travelling and am currently (and usually) in a remote area. 
Ok, back to it...I believe a guy was charged for this murder (strangulation if my memory serves me correctly) and I think it may have been classified as a 'domestic' situation at the time. Now I can't even remember the actual year this took place, however, one of the reasons it stuck in my head after all of these years is, we used to ride our horses over there often. It was a spooky place...a subsequent search last night on my limited reception said lots of things had happened in both this house (built circa 1920) and at the rail crossing beside it. I didn't know any of the rest until last night when I was trying not such a data intensive route to find out the girl, the date, the perpetrator etc. I know I have found this stuff before on the net. 
Anyways, when we used to go over there on our horses, there were a heap of young blokes living there rough (like a bogan house). It used to spook me for a reason I couldn't put my finger on, but my friend was always keen to go over there. That was before the girls death though. Who's to say that BE hasn't been there at sometime and that girl was murdered, and the next available scape goat (her partner) was charged with it. We've certainly observed that proper investigations of rapes, assaults, murders and missing persons have been challenging throughout this period of the last 30 years or so eh? Longer, if you look at the bungling of the charges relating to 'the night stalker ' that should have been imposed on Eric Cooke, not every other innocent person within cooee. 
Haha, as for the irony of Telstra having a win.....normally I'm very controlled....that is...data nears the end....I cease all internet usage.....not now though, I can't stop reading lol. The only thing that's stopped me in the last 24 hours is no tower!!! I'm not prepared to pay out another 20 odd bucks just to get on FB tho, because I also hate it. So....if no one remembers her name in the next few weeks, I'll have a look then. 
Also...just a thought when I'm reading posts about how the CSK could/would explain absences to his wives - if he was an abuser (like is probably pretty dead on) why would he have to explain an absence? He'd just say 'shut up and mind your own business and make me a sammich' wouldn't he?
UPDATE: the girls name was Vanessa Devlin and it happened around 1988/9. A guy called James Tilbury was charged with it. Sorry this is out of order, I'm very remote and now I see I have another 17 pages to catch up on 

janwa 
Originally Posted by MingMong  
sorry guys explanation for my tardiness in the middle - - and two parts to post."..

I have a good memory for some things, but a lot eludes me, trust me on that! 
I do just remember something about the Dalziel St murder (must of been the flats, as the only other house was 'the sandy mans' from memory). 
However, some details of the other one I'm recalling are more clear to me. 
Ok, I can tell you this. The girl was found in the house at 1995 Albany Hwy Maddington, which was diagonally opposite what used to be Stokley station. I can not recall her name, however I know that on my school group someone had mentioned the fact 'so & so' had been murdered and I asked "was that in the house opposite Stokley station?" and he'd confirmed it was (this convo was some years ago now). I will need to go on my FB to research a name of the girl, and that can only a occur in a week or so after my data resets. I'm already 4gb over. It's also one reason I'm sporadic on here, the other being is that I'm travelling and am currently (and usually) in a remote area. 
Ok, back to it...I believe a guy was charged for this murder (strangulation if my memory serves me correctly) and I think it may have been classified as a 'domestic' situation at the time. Now I can't even remember the actual year this took place, however, one of the reasons it stuck in my head after all of these years is, we used to ride our horses over there often. It was a spooky place...a subsequent search last night on my limited reception said lots of things had happened in both this house (built circa 1920) and at the rail crossing beside it. I didn't know any of the rest until last night when I was trying not such a data intensive route to find out the girl, the date, the perpetrator etc. I know I have found this stuff before on the net. 
Anyways, when we used to go over there on our horses, there were a heap of young blokes living there rough (like a bogan house). It used to spook me for a reason I couldn't put my finger on, but my friend was always keen to go over there. That was before the girls death though. Who's to say that BE hasn't been there at sometime and that girl was murdered, and the next available scape goat (her partner) was charged with it. We've certainly observed that proper investigations of rapes, assaults, murders and missing persons have been challenging throughout this period of the last 30 years or so eh? Longer, if you look at the bungling of the charges relating to 'the night stalker ' that should have been imposed on Eric Cooke, not every other innocent person within cooee. 

Haha, as for the irony of Telstra having a win.....normally I'm very controlled....that is...data nears the end....I cease all internet usage.....not now though, I can't stop reading lol. The only thing that's stopped me in the last 24 hours is no tower!!! I'm not prepared to pay out another 20 odd bucks just to get on FB tho, because I also hate it. So....if no one remembers her name in the next few weeks, I'll have a look then. 
Also...just a thought when I'm reading posts about how the CSK could/would explain absences to his wives - if he was an abuser (like is probably pretty dead on) why would he have to explain an absence? He'd just say 'shut up and mind your own business and make me a sammich' wouldn't he?

UPDATE: the girls name was Vanessa Devlin and it happened around 1988/9. A guy called James Tilbury was charged with it. Sorry this is out of order, I'm very remote and now I see I have another 17 pages to catch up on 

I remember these murders one was in the small house set back on a big block either next to or just past the chiropractors. The other across the hwy set near the road on a big block. I passed it every day on the train. The house eventually got wrecked the land was sold and a new house built with the wreck still there. There was also a body found at some point stuffed down drain.

Nugget77 
Question for posters: It appears that BRE's relationship ended in the last couple of years. What are your thoughts on BRE coming onto the police radar because; 

1. He's done some dodgy stuff since the breakup.
2. His ex wife/another family member has reported him.

I think the timing is intriguing especially in that he might have started re-offending, doing some dodgy stuff online, bragging, behaviours changed recently. 

Any thoughts?

01-03-2017
 
Froglady 
Originally Posted by MingMong  
sorry guys explanation for my tardiness in the middle - - and two parts to post."..

I have a good memory for some things, but a lot eludes me, trust me on that! 
I do just remember something about the Dalziel St murder (must of been the flats, as the only other house was 'the sandy mans' from memory). However, some details of the other one I'm recalling are more clear to me. 
Ok, I can tell you this. The girl was found in the house at 1995 Albany Hwy Maddington, which was diagonally opposite what used to be Stokley station. I can not recall her name, however I know that on my school group someone had mentioned the fact 'so & so' had been murdered and I asked "was that in the house opposite Stokley station?" and he'd confirmed it was (this convo was some years ago now). I will need to go on my FB to research a name of the girl, and that can only a occur in a week or so after my data resets. I'm already 4gb over. It's also one reason I'm sporadic on here, the other being is that I'm travelling and am currently (and usually) in a remote area. 
Ok, back to it...I believe a guy was charged for this murder (strangulation if my memory serves me correctly) and I think it may have been classified as a 'domestic' situation at the time. Now I can't even remember the actual year this took place, however, one of the reasons it stuck in my head after all of these years is, we used to ride our horses over there often. It was a spooky place...a subsequent search last night on my limited reception said lots of things had happened in both this house (built circa 1920) and at the rail crossing beside it. I didn't know any of the rest until last night when I was trying not such a data intensive route to find out the girl, the date, the perpetrator etc. I know I have found this stuff before on the net. 
Anyways, when we used to go over there on our horses, there were a heap of young blokes living there rough (like a bogan house). It used to spook me for a reason I couldn't put my finger on, but my friend was always keen to go over there. That was before the girls death though. Who's to say that BE hasn't been there at sometime and that girl was murdered, and the next available scape goat (her partner) was charged with it. We've certainly observed that proper investigations of rapes, assaults, murders and missing persons have been challenging throughout this period of the last 30 years or so eh? Longer, if you look at the bungling of the charges relating to 'the night stalker ' that should have been imposed on Eric Cooke, not every other innocent person within cooee. 

Haha, as for the irony of Telstra having a win.....normally I'm very controlled....that is...data nears the end....I cease all internet usage.....not now though, I can't stop reading lol. The only thing that's stopped me in the last 24 hours is no tower!!! I'm not prepared to pay out another 20 odd bucks just to get on FB tho, because I also hate it. So....if no one remembers her name in the next few weeks, I'll have a look then. 

Also...just a thought when I'm reading posts about how the CSK could/would explain absences to his wives - if he was an abuser (like is probably pretty dead on) why would he have to explain an absence? He'd just say 'shut up and mind your own business and make me a sammich' wouldn't he?

UPDATE: the girls name was Vanessa Devlin and it happened around 1988/9. A guy called James Tilbury was charged with it. Sorry this is out of order, I'm very remote and now I see I have another 17 pages to catch up on

The guy who murdered vanessa had also mudered someone else in the early 70s.
Rest in peace Erica Parsons.  

apoptosisfutz

Saw this as part of a Mirror newspaper report doing a Google search from 1997....."Yesterday they revealed that a woman saw a man acting suspiciously two days ago in the area where Ciara's body was found. 


They are working on a detailed photofit." 


Wonder what happened with it (if it is factual)?


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 
The Weaver 
 Originally Posted by MingMong  
sorry guys explanation for my tardiness in the middle - - and two parts to post."..



I have a good memory for some things, but a lot eludes me, trust me on that! 
I do just remember something about the Dalziel St murder (must of been the flats, as the only other house was 'the sandy mans' from memory). However, some details of the other one I'm recalling are more clear to me. 
Ok, I can tell you this. The girl was found in the house at 1995 Albany Hwy Maddington, which was diagonally opposite what used to be Stokley station. I can not recall her name, however I know that on my school group someone had mentioned the fact 'so & so' had been murdered and I asked "was that in the house opposite Stokley station?" and he'd confirmed it was (this convo was some years ago now). I will need to go on my FB to research a name of the girl, and that can only a occur in a week or so after my data resets. I'm already 4gb over. It's also one reason I'm sporadic on here, the other being is that I'm travelling and am currently (and usually) in a remote area. 
Ok, back to it...I believe a guy was charged for this murder (strangulation if my memory serves me correctly) and I think it may have been classified as a 'domestic' situation at the time. Now I can't even remember the actual year this took place, however, one of the reasons it stuck in my head after all of these years is, we used to ride our horses over there often. It was a spooky place...a subsequent search last night on my limited reception said lots of things had happened in both this house (built circa 1920) and at the rail crossing beside it. I didn't know any of the rest until last night when I was trying not such a data intensive route to find out the girl, the date, the perpetrator etc. I know I have found this stuff before on the net. 
Anyways, when we used to go over there on our horses, there were a heap of young blokes living there rough (like a bogan house). It used to spook me for a reason I couldn't put my finger on, but my friend was always keen to go over there. That was before the girls death though. Who's to say that BE hasn't been there at sometime and that girl was murdered, and the next available scape goat (her partner) was charged with it. We've certainly observed that proper investigations of rapes, assaults, murders and missing persons have been challenging throughout this period of the last 30 years or so eh? Longer, if you look at the bungling of the charges relating to 'the night stalker ' that should have been imposed on Eric Cooke, not every other innocent person within cooee. 


Haha, as for the irony of Telstra having a win.....normally I'm very controlled....that is...data nears the end....I cease all internet usage.....not now though, I can't stop reading lol. The only thing that's stopped me in the last 24 hours is no tower!!! I'm not prepared to pay out another 20 odd bucks just to get on FB tho, because I also hate it. So....if no one remembers her name in the next few weeks, I'll have a look then. 

Also...just a thought when I'm reading posts about how the CSK could/would explain absences to his wives - if he was an abuser (like is probably pretty dead on) why would he have to explain an absence? He'd just say 'shut up and mind your own business and make me a sammich' wouldn't he?

UPDATE: the girls name was Vanessa Devlin and it happened around 1988/9. A guy called James Tilbury was charged with it. Sorry this is out of order, I'm very remote and now I see I have another 17 pages to catch up on 

Tilbury was convicted in 1971 for the murder of Lynette Robeson and again in 1989 for the murder of Vanessa Devlin.

[Interview with James Tilbury] [sound recording] / [interviewed by Arthur Tonkin].
Tilbury, James Alexander, 1941-
https://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/762912744
Details
Publication information: 1990.
1 sound cassette.
OHrecon.
Access open.
His background views on his life as a prisoner at Fremantle Prison, views on homosexuality, capital punishment. Tilbury was convicted in 1971 for the murder of Lynette Robeson and again in 1989 for the murder of Vanessa Devlin.


AlwaysCurious77 


I read a post on FB about a family member of BE being arrested on unrelated matters and DNA tested. Allegedly, it was this test that led them to EB. I'm sorry but I have read so many FB thread lately I can't tell you which one it is.

He Who Waits




http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2003/s1042100.htm


He Who Waits
PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT: Monday, 9 February , 2004 

CAROLINE JONES: Hello, I'm Caroline Jones. Tonight's story takes us inside Australia's longest-running and most expensive murder investigation. Eight years ago, three young women went missing from the wealthy Perth suburb of Claremont. Two of the girls were found murdered. The body of the third has never been discovered. Now some are suggesting that the subsequent disappearance of other young women from different areas of Perth could possibly be linked, an idea strongly rejected by the Claremont investigators. What's not in dispute is that the heartache and controversy surrounding the Claremont killings has not faded with time. Now pressure is building for a fresh approach.


ROBIN NAPPER – FORENSIC SCIENCE UNIT: People have to realise that serial killers don't walk around with horns sticking out of their head. They look like normal people. They look like your neighbour. But by night, that's when the really evil side comes out and they go off hunting and prowling for victims. And they simply just can't stop. They have to keep on and on. It's like food and water, to us.
So, there is this compulsion to kill and to keep on killing and to get better and better each time that they do it. They can't take victims unless they can actually get close to victims and be friendly and actually lure them into cars or take them away. So, the persona they will present to the world is one of a very friendly - maybe a little bit offbeat, maybe a little bit strange, but nevertheless a non-dangerous person.


BRET CHRISTIAN – EDITOR, POST NEWSPAPERS: Claremont was never looked on as a dangerous place. Claremont's a well-heeled area which has something of an entertainment centre. There's a nightclub and a hotel there. In the mid-1990s, three girls in a fairly short space of time went missing after visiting those nightspots.
Well, it totally traumatised our backyard. The girls had been there probably as kids shopping with their mothers, and then at night they would go there, you know, for fun, to have a few drinks, meet some friends, and suddenly it became a hellhole, somewhere where people disappeared from.


DON SPIERS: Sarah had been at Club Bayview in Claremont with friends of hers. When she left, her friends weren't ready to go, so she left early to make a phone call for a taxi. When the taxi-driver arrived she was not there. It was probably only three minutes after the appointment. Well, initially you like to presume that there's something minor wrong and that, you know, everything will work out - that maybe she's gone with friends somewhere and hasn't been able to return. But we knew that there was something serious wrong because Sarah just simply would not fail to communicate with us under any circumstances. You know, our love was so strong that she wouldn't do that to us, you know?


CAPTION: Sarah Spiers disappeared about 2am on 27th January 1996. She has never been found.


DON SPIEARS: People ask me, "How do you cope?" And you don't "cope" - you learn to preoccupy yourself. I mean, I keep myself so busy that my mind's occupied all the time. I only have to have two or three hours off and I start to, you know, become a bit depressed. My day starts at 5:00 in the morning and I very rarely knock off before 8:00 in the evening. I admit now - I've always sort of probably been accepted as a fairly...fairly strong and rugged sort of a character, but, um, you know, I confess I cried myself to sleep for over 12 months in the initial... in the initial journey. And, you know, I'm not ashamed. Not ashamed of that at all.


CAPTION: On 9th June 1996, four months after Sarah Spiers vanished, Jane Rimmer disappeared in similar circumstances. Believing there was a connection, the next day police set up the MACRO Task Force.


TREVOR RIMMER: The police came round and they told me that, um... .that they'd found Jane's body. And, um... .that was the... the end of the night. That just... Everything broke down. That was just so hard. Because at that time, I guess, we were still hoping against hope, in our hearts... .that she was still alive...even though we knew in our heads that the odds were very much against it.


JENNY RIMMER: You wonder when it happens, "Why was it my daughter that night?" I mean, which is not a very nice thing to say, but you naturally think that. And I think she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You know, it could've been anyone. I just couldn't believe it.


CAPTION: Two months later, Jane Rimmer’s body was found.


POLICE RE-CREATION: On 14 March, just over a week ago, was a night just like this. Ciara Glennon left the hotel that's just behind me and hasn't been seen since. She's the third young woman that this has occurred to in 14 months in this area.


DENIS GLENNON – PRESS CONFERENCE: Only now do I even begin to understand, um, the terrible trauma that the parents of Jane and Sarah went through, and...and the degree of empathy that I have with them now is just enormous. No parent who loves their child, even a child of 28 like Ciara was, can even begin to comprehend the devastating thing that this is in any family.


CAPTION: Nine months later, in march 1997, a third girl, Ciara Glennon went missing from Claremont.


NEWS REPORT: We want to move quickly to see if we can get information while it is fresh in people's minds. 
NEWS GRAB: We certainly have fears that there is a serial killer at loose in Perth. 
NEWS REPORTER: Police are collecting body specimens from potential suspects. 
NEWS GRAB: It wasn't, like, a prostitute or anything - just a normal family girl. It's really quite terrifying.


DET. SGT PAUL COOMBES – MACRO TASK LEADER: The State of Western Australia, I believe, was in a state of shock upon the disappearance of Ciara Glennon. For three people to disappear from relatively safe streets without a trace was very disturbing.
The investigation has continued full-time for over seven years, and that in itself is very unique. It is the biggest ever in this State and in the history of WA policing, and possibly the largest investigation ever conducted in Australia.


DAVID CAPORN – HEAD MACRO TASK FORCE: I think one of the very tangible ways that this crime could be solved is in the tracing of the particularly significant items of jewellery that are missing in relation to this case.


DET. SGT LEE: What I'm showing you now is replicas of the clothing worn by all of the girls on the night of their disappearance, firstly starting with Sarah's clothing. And in particular we'd like to locate a key ring, a sunflower key ring. Um, most notable with Jane's clothing and property is the small bag. And with Ciara's clothing, the most notable is the small brooch.


DAVID CAPRON: Those are the sort of pieces of information that could assist the task force to resolve this matter.


NEWS REPORTER: Amid growing fears the killer would strike again soon, a breakthrough - MACRO Task Force detectives swooping on a suspect at 3 o'clock Sunday morning as he prowled around Claremont streets in his car.


BRET CHRISTIAN: There is a man that the police have been watching from very early on in the investigation, and he appears to be a prime suspect. Vast amounts of resources have gone into watching his every movement, to following him, to surveilling him in all sorts of different ways.


JENNY RIMMER: Well, the only thing I can say is that if he had nothing to do with it, I feel really sorry for him. If they're so confident, I can't understand why he hasn't been charged. There's obviously something lacking after, like, seven years. They still can't put their finger on it, so it's very hard to comprehend.


BRET CHRISTIAN: I think our community's been lulled into a false sense of security by the - sort of the sly nod and the wink that, "Look, we really know who's done this. We've been watching him. "And since we've been watching him there's been no other murders." That's actually wrong. There HAVE been other murders - just not any more in Claremont.


DAVID CAPORN: We can't eliminate the possibility that there is another crime that's been committed that's linked to the Claremont crime, but there is no indication of any significance that we have had a linked one since Ciara Glennon's disappearance and, ultimately, her murder. Certainly, there have been times when the media have led the community to believe that we're only interested in one person. I can assure you that we've looked far and wide, and that as every year goes by, several people are looked at very closely.


JENNY RIMMER: I don't think it'll be solved. I think too much time has gone past. They should have caught the person by now. We know there are other girls that have gone missing, and... .I mean, I haven't heard much about a lot of those other girls.


ROBIN NAPPER: You cannot divorce the three missing girls from Claremont with all the other missing people, because it's unsolved. He's still out there.


CAPTION: At 5pm on November 8 2000, Sarah McMahon left her workplace in Claremont. She said she was going to meet a friend. She vanished without a trace. Ten days later her car was found at the Swan District Hospital.


TRISH MCMAHON: The police said no, it had nothing to do with the Claremont girls missing. We just didn't have to even think about that. It was nothing to do with that at all. But they said because of the circumstances of Sarah's disappearance, that it was highly likely that Sarah had been murdered or that she was dead. I took it the only way I could - I don't believe it. I want facts.
I don't want to have to deal with what the police THINK. I want to be able to have tangible facts. People say, "Well, you know, it's been three years, you know. "You have to get on with your life." How can we? How can we? There are so many unanswered questions.


DON SPIERS: You know, people that perpetrate these sort of activities have no...no grasp of the torment and pain that they put families through. If they could just have a bit of an insight as to what they've done to numerous people... It's not just the families - like, the brothers, sisters and parents - but there's the uncles, the cousins, the aunties, the grandparents.


JENNY RIMMER: But it's also impacted on a lot of our friends and our relations. 
We pour three glasses of champagne and an extra one for Janie, and we drink ours and enjoy it, and then we pour hers on the plaque. My girlfriends and I do that quite often, actually, on her birthday - go down there with the Blush champagne, which was her favourite. 
We...that makes you feel really good. I think, anyway. Mmm.


DON SPIERS: Our situation's a little bit different to the Glennons' and the Rimmers', because their two girls have been found. We still haven't had either of the questions answered as to where Sarah is and what's actually happened to her. Another big problem that we've had has been clairvoyants. They have been a huge torment to myself and my family in giving cryptic clues as to where Sarah might be. I remember one night early days I was down Salter Point, you know, thrashing around the swampy areas down there at 11 o'clock at night. Um...probably walking around bawling my eyes out and getting nowhere. I mean, a lot of times I've known I shouldn't have listened, but I've always thought that maybe they're using that excuse of being a clairvoyant to give me some honest facts.


TRISH MCMAHON: I've been to Melbourne, put up posters in Melbourne. I've been to Sydney, going out with the soup van. My son's travelled up the coast putting up posters. We've done as much as we can. I don't know what else to do... ..you know? I haven't got the resources. I just haven't got the resources. I...I want to be out there now.


BRET CHRISTIAN: There are about 16 murders or disappearances of women since the late 1980s that remain unsolved in Perth. That's something that hasn't really registered in the public mind - that the 16 disappearances, or a large proportion of those, could be the work of one person. I think MACRO should live up to its name and go and look at the really big picture again and try and connect the dots.


ROBIN NAPPER: The UK police service learnt a very painful lesson in the 1970s with the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe. He was found almost by accident. Because of information overload, they'd been chasing other leads down the wrong path and they'd missed him, and lives could have been saved. As a result of that, one of the recommendations was the creation of the National Crime Faculty, who would do independent case reviews, so in the future when complex murder investigations occurred, an independent team would come in and look at the whole case independently to get another perspective on the investigation.
An independent case review will bring in experts from all the different fields - geographic profilers, forensic profilers, different pathologists, different investigators. And the host force gives them the material, then they literally stand back and leave them to it to do the whole review. This Claremont case has now remained unsolved for eight years, and in my view it's almost crying out for a full, comprehensive case review where we get experts from round the world, we look at world's best practice, and we adopt it to this case to try and solve it once and for all.


DAVID CAPORN: I don't know of any other investigation that has been audited and reviewed as much as the MACRO investigation. We have employed people in this State and also people in other parts of Australia with significant homicide investigation background, particularly in relation to serial crime, to conduct comprehensive reviews of the inquiry. Other things that we've done is to employ investigators within this State to review particular streams of evidence, so rather than give them the whole investigation review, we'll give them bite-sized pieces. We've also sent our case file to numerous experts throughout the world - United Kingdom, United States - allowing those people full access to our information to get opinions, views.


ROBIN NAPPER: It's how you look at the word "review". A complex investigation is like a huge jigsaw puzzle, and you cannot solve that by sending one piece of the jigsaw puzzle off to an expert overseas and asking him to tell you what the picture is. The whole point of an independent review is, you get everyone together at the same time and at the same place with the same material. That's the synergy that's solved some of the most complex murders since the Yorkshire Ripper case.


COMMANDER ANDY BAKER – HEAD HOMICIDE: Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. You're so close to it, you may have tunnel vision. So, you need someone to come in and say, "Step back." We have found it's been difficult for other offices, whether in the UK or across the world, to accept others coming in, but the parameters are that this is a search for truth every single time. It may hurt someone, but it's got to be a search for the truth, 'cause the truth will come out.


ROBIN NAPPER: There is so much help in there, like the National Crime Faculty in the UK, who are experts and skilled in these case reviews, who, without a doubt, would come and help in this case review.


DAVE BARCLAY: We're certainly supporting MACRO here at National Crime Faculty, but with some specific things that we have that other people don't, like the injuries database. It would be fair to say that we have not made an effective contribution to MACRO. I've had a go at it. A colleague of mine who's a specialist advisor has had a go too. We just don't have enough information at this distance.


PAUL COOMBES – MACRO TASK FORCE: I believe that the investigation team itself are still very well positioned to be able to resolve the matters. We're very confident in the advances in forensic technology, and that is one of the reasons why we have instigated a forensic review to go back to the beginning and look at what we do hold on this case. We believe that that may, with what we hold, open the case up to enable us to get to a stage where we can prosecute.


DAVE BARCLAY – NATIONAL CRIME FACULTY: Most opportunities arise from lack of thought, not lack of technology. When you look at it, it isn't DNA that solves these crimes. It's basic reassessment of the crime scene by somebody else. Helps a lot.


COMMANDER ANDY BAKER: I think if the Claremont case had been investigated in the UK, I'm not confident that it would've been detected in the UK, either. Now, from what we've seen of what's been done, it's been pretty good and pretty extensive. The thing that HASN'T been done, I think, is this giant workshop where we all get together.
The review system certainly has brought success around locking up the guilty. And more importantly, there's families that have had unanswered questions. At least we've answered some of those questions, and I've actually seen some families and communities, a weight removed from them. And as time goes on, they're a bit more at peace with what happened to their loved one.


DON SPIERS: The police that have been involved with us have been absolutely outstanding in the way that they've conducted themselves and gone out of their way to assist us. You know, even the guys that are still on the case today are always right behind us. I mean, there's no question that doesn't get answered. If I've got a problem, I tell them what it is and they make sure that I've got an answer. They're...they've been remarkable.


PAUL COOMBES: On a personal level, I suppose it is with you the whole time. I've got to know Don, in particular, fairly well and I do feel very close to him. At times it is very frustrating for me not being able to...talk to Don about where Sarah is. And we've spoken a number of times about that day, should and when we do locate Sarah - you know, how we would deal with it.


BRET CHRISTIAN: I think it's more like the Eric Cooke saga than people believe, and I think we'll find out one day that it very closely approximates that dreadful period of serial killings through the same residential area that happened in the 1960s. The women who were killed and injured by Eric Cooke - at the time that they happened, the police made public statements saying, "It's not the work of the same person." Later on, it was discovered that he was using all sorts of different methods of locating and murdering the women. He was running them down with cars, he was stabbing them, he was attacking them with axes and he was shooting people. So, there seems to be a Hollywood myth that serial killers use only one method, they operate in only one area, and that stamps them as that particular killer.


DAVID CAPORN: We can only do everything within our power to complete the investigation and hopefully have a successful resolution. It's not crystal ball stuff. It's not about a 1-hour television program where the crime occurs, you put your resources in and at the end of the show it's solved - it's just not as simple as that. But it's a matter of history that all over the world there will be crimes that are not resolved.


JENNY RIMMER: I don't feel revenge. I don't think that does any good. But I'd just like to know...you know, maybe how it all happened and who it was and...save some other poor young girl from going through the same thing.


DON SPIERS: There's probably not an hour of any day that passes that I don't think of Sarah. Until the day that she is found, there'll never be closure. No matter what the circumstances, I would like to have someone come forward. I don't want clairvoyants, but if there's someone out there that knows where our Sarah is, for them to come forward and tell me...somehow.


CAPTION: W.A. Police say there have been 10 independent reviews of ‘MACRO’, including one in the UK and four in the USA. Later this year after the current forensic review, police will ask overseas experts to conduct another comprehensive review.
Crime Stoppers: 1800 333 000

Serious Witness Ignored by Poloice re the Claremont Seria Killings
Serial kill fear
16 June 2007 in a Sunday Times Special Report, the well known author and journalist, Estelle Blackburn 


http://netk.net.au/Articles/Estelle1.asp


Networked Knowledge – Media Report
[This edited version of the report has been prepared by Dr Robert N Moles]

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On 16 June 2007 in a Sunday Times Special Report, the well known author and journalist, Estelle Blackburn reported “Serial kill fear”
Perth author Estelle Blackburn has revealed how she was the victim of brutal domestic violence at the hand of a man she believes could be the Claremont serial killer. I was savagely attacked by a man who I fear could be the Claremont serial killer. My attacker was good looking and charming, and he had unlicensed access to taxis. He lived the other side of Perth, but often stayed with me in my flat in Cottesloe. In the week before Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer went missing, my then boyfriend's personality changed. He seemed to be building up to something.

 And then he disappeared for several days. On the nights the Claremont killer struck on January 26 and June 9 1996, I didn't know what this man with access to taxis was doing.

A later girlfriend told me that once he had bound and gagged her and put her in his boot, releasing her later in bush with water nearby. While assaulting and abusing her, he threatened to kill her and said, pointing to the water that there was ``another blonde bitch down there''. And the day before Ciara Glennon's body was found in bushland north of Perth, I was stalked by my then ex-boyfriend who was driving a taxi. When I put in a report to Claremont Police Station, homicide officers visited me and questioned me, the main focus being on whether he had given me particular pieces of jewellery. He hadn't - but he was a regular buyer and seller at Cash Converters, as he was at car yards, often changing his car.

I had reported him and nothing happened. He continued his violence with two more women until one was braver than me and made a complaint that had him jailed for stalking and threatening to kill. He was jailed in May 2000.
Despite breaking parole last year, he was paroled again earlier this year. Her home was installed with round-the-clock video surveillance. I've made my own costly security arrangements. She has gained a long-term restraining order and I understand other women have taken out restraining orders since he was paroled.

Through three years of living with the fear, stress and physical pain and injury of a violent man who seemed impossible to escape from, I hadn't taken any notice of the taxis left at his home for him to service overnight. He was a mechanic. Nor had I taken any notice of the taxi I saw in my rear-vision mirror this night, when I was stopped at the Oats St rail crossing. There were no occupants but the driver, and no other cars around. I felt confident that he wasn't stalking me tonight as he had been for the past month since I finally stood up to him.

Now, as well as the fear evoked by his voice on the phone telling me in detail the unusual route I had taken home from a dance in Carlisle, and telling me he had been driving the taxi, the ghastly realisation gripped me.

It was Wednesday April 2, 1997, two weeks after Ciara Glennon had gone missing while walking along Stirling Highway, Claremont, trying to hail a taxi. I kept tying to convince myself there could be no link between this and the other two victims of the Claremont killer, Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer, who had both been planning to get taxis home. Taxi drivers had been thoroughly investigated by the Macro Taskforce. But what about other people who had unlicensed access to them?

After the taxi stalking 10 years ago, I checked with his then girlfriend about the night that Ciara Glennon went missing. Although she provided an alibi for him and although he must have been eliminated by the police investigation, I still have niggling concerns. A pre-sentence report on him, available to the public on the law report website, is chilling:

" . . . has an escalating pattern of violent offending which targets women. He has shown no remorse or empathy for his victim, but instead sees himself as a victim and manifests periodic emotional instability stemming from a narcissistic personality style. Such individuals have suffered from a lack of admiration in their formative years, which predisposes them to seek admiration in later life. Because they have fragile egos, these individuals are highly prone to distress when their sense of pride is injured by life stresses.

"At such times their behaviour can become disorganised. Their resultant behaviour reflects attempts to restore a sense of pride and esteem, and can involve personal attacks on others who are perceived as injuring them. In the present case, it appears that the thwarting of his need for admiration, by a slight or rejection, can trigger emotional instability and verbal aggression.

"The fragility manifested by such individuals is a personality feature, which is not readily ameliorated. Their pattern of coping is unlikely to alter in the absence of insight and the undertaking of significant personal therapeutic work he is not a suitable candidate for psychological counselling on account of his defensiveness and unwillingness to accept responsibility for his behaviour.''
I was a victim of that behaviour, an experience that I would never have dreamed would come my way. While I didn't live with him, I was trapped in the web of domestic violence. I had been caught by what I now know to be fairly standard tactics - charming, fun, loving, caring behaviour until you're in the trap. Then it starts.

I couldn't have been more surprised when it did - even though he had been facing some charges of violence against a former girlfriend when I met him. They included assault, threatening to kill her and threatening to kill a detective. I believed his explanation and cries of innocence, and although he was convicted by a jury, I felt my judgment was vindicated by the minimal suspended sentence the judge gave him.

The discovery in December 1994 that I had been taken in by his lies was a terrifying experience. A rock-hard fist landed with a stinging crack on my jaw, sending searing pain through my head. I heard a loud crunch as my neck suddenly jerked around. I stumbled with the force of the blow and the wretched shock as my understanding of the world was instantaneously shattered. His face was as hard as his fist, his soft, charming features changed to those of a stranger. This man's ice-cold, steely-eyed look was unrecognisable. His iron fist landed again on my jaw and his spittle splattered my face.

He had been drinking and playing chess with a mate when I arrived at his unit. His incomprehensible anger erupted from nowhere and he became a rampaging stranger, a strong bull against whom I was totally defenceless. He punched a hole in the door and raged at me, swearing, grabbing me by the hair and yanking it in a violent fury. His friend just stood there as he punched me and threatened to kill me. He clenched his hands around my throat, squeezing hard until I couldn't breathe, only releasing his grip at what felt like the last second, when my lungs had just about stopped their struggle.

He grabbed a knife from the kitchen and held it to my throat, then pushed the shards of a glass he had smashed to my mouth, screaming that he would make me eat them. There was nothing I could do against this powerful force. I could barely believe it was happening; it was such a total change, out of nowhere. Nor could I believe that his mate wasn't helping me. But at least he was there, a witness, and I tried to elicit some hope of survival from that - until the raging maniac ordered his friend to leave. I was now facing the violence alone.
He locked and chained the door before pulling the phone connection out of the wall. I was totally at his mercy; my years of teenage jujutsu training were nothing against his bulk, strength and sudden insanity. I had no chance of getting to the door and unchaining and unlocking it, and no chance of outrunning him even if I did escape. As he grabbed my hair and dragged me to the bedroom, screaming that he would kill me, I submitted. So this was it. This was what it was like to be murdered.

Immersed in researching and writing about murder for my book Broken Lives, I accepted I was now to experience it first-hand. My body was on fire from the punches and strangling, but I was still alive when, some interminable time later, his rage finally exhausted itself.
I was desperate to leave, to escape from this nightmare and wake up somewhere safe. But I was also terrified that any attempt to escape would set him off again, and it would take some time to unchain and unlock the door and run away through the dark, isolated car park. I decided to stay and pretended to fall asleep as though nothing had happened. In reality, I lay awake all night, hurting, burning, aching as if I'd been in a car crash; terrified that he might wake up and renew his rage.

The next morning he was back to normal, the man I knew. It was as if the switch that had turned him into a monster had turned off again. He was apologetic and wept, begging me to forgive him. 

I drove him to his doctor in Rivervale, where he admitted everything, saying he was sorry and didn't understand why he had done it. The doctor made phone calls to have him admitted to Graylands mental hospital. But the hospital wouldn't take him. I was alarmed, but convinced it would still be fine when the doctor arranged instead for him to see a psychiatrist.
His remorse and pleadings for forgiveness seemed genuine; I was too innocent about domestic violence to know this was part of the perpetrator's routine.

 The bouts continued, always followed by total remorse, and attended by constant controlling behaviour and threats to kill me if I left, including telling me that one day my car would blow up.


Several violent episodes were in public, with witness around, at the Hyde Park Hotel, at the Embassy Ballroom, at my home when I ran to my neighbour. I spent many nights hiding out, renting a room at what used to be the nurses' quarters at Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital, kept pepper spray with me and had a series of sheets tied to the foot of the bed in case I had to escape from my first-storey flat window.

Once, when he rang and announced he was coming to kill me, I rang two of his friends for help, making me too late to get away in time. He was at the door. Forewarned, I had slipped some pepper spray through my belt. When he grabbed me in a vice-like grip around the neck and attempted to frogmarch me inside, no doubt to a repeat of my previous horrors, I sprayed him at close range. I escaped his grip and ran out to the front of the flats, where two men in a truck were about to deliver bottled spring water. They let me inside to the safety of the cab and I used their phone to dial the emergency number.

How glad I was to see the police, who took notes from witnesses after he had run off. But after threatening messages among the pleading ones he left on my answer machine, I was too frightened to press charges and didn't proceed with the restraining order I took out the next day.
I noticed his violence escalate in February 1997. One night, I arrived home from dancing to find a blackout. Discovering that the fuses had been pulled out, I replaced them and carefully checked around my home with the pepper spray at the ready, looking in cupboards, under the bed and behind curtains. He was hiding under my computer desk, saying he had planned to smother me while I was asleep.

On Wednesday March 5, 1997, he attacked me for the last time. I finally stood up to him, as I should have the first time, after he again punched me and bashed my head against the wall. He used every trick he had used before -- cajoling, begging, crying, threatening, stalking, terrorising. But this time I, at last, found the strength to withstand it and risk the consequences.

Five days later, on Monday March 10, he threatened me and punched a dent in the roof of my parked car. On Wednesday, March 12, he came into the Embassy Ballroom, threatening me again and twice tried to stop me getting away by blocking the road with his car. None of it worked this time. He has lost his power over me.

Two days later, on Friday March 14, Ciara Glennon disappeared. I did what I could in reporting him to the police and I assume they investigated and eliminated him, but I still have a niggling concern. I declined a national publisher's approach to write a book about the Claremont killings a few years ago, believing it was too sensitive for the victims' families. But I have written about my experience and concerns in my latest book - The End of Innocence - which goes into why and how I wrote Broken Lives.
My grim personal experience helped me describe serial killer Eric Edgar Cooke and understand the experiences of his wife and his victims. I know I will never allow myself to be a victim of domestic violence again. And I urge every woman who hasn't escaped as I finally did, to walk away at the first episode, as I was advised, and to make use of the services available to help.

On Friday, a police spokesman told The Sunday Times: "WA Police can confirm that the MACRO Taskforce did receive some information from Estelle Blackburn, but it is our policy not to comment on whether individuals have or haven't been investigated by MACRO.''
Source: 16 June 2007 Sunday Times Special Report: Estelle Blackburn “Serial kill fear”
 

Vital clues missed in hunt for Claremont serial killer


Sunday, January 01, 2017 
The West Australian Newspaper

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/vital-clues-missed-in-hunt-for-claremont-serial-killer-ng-b88342709z



The scene at the Continental Hotel in Claremont the Saturday night after Ciara Glennon went missing

 
Sarah Spiers is still missing since January, 1996 when she disappeared after attending the Continental Hotel in Bay View Terrace, Claremont after a night out with friends

The scene at the Continental Hotel in Claremont the Saturday night after Ciara Glennon went missing. Photo: Barry Baker, The West Australian.Picture: The West Australian
Detectives missed three early opportunities that could have led them to the Claremont serial killer in the 1990s, according to The Post newspaper.
The western suburbs paper, which has followed the case closely for 20 years, yesterday reported that the missed leads included clues left on the driver’s licence of a 17-year-old girl who was abducted and raped in 1995, a crime which police now believe was committed by the same offender.
They also included car upholstery samples recovered from the body of second murder victim Jane Rimmer sent to the wrong Chemistry Centre department in 1996 and lost, and a “critical item” overlooked from the body of third victim Ciara Glennon.
The 17-year-old was abducted from Rowe Park opposite the Claremont Showground subway in February 1995, and raped at Karrakatta Cemetery.
Post editor Bret Christian wrote that her attacker handled the victim’s driver’s licence, which was later found discarded by a young local girl.
He reported that detectives investigating the sex assault did not doorknock in the area. It was not until more than a year later when Macro task force investigators looking for the killer of Sarah Spiers and Ms Rimmer did, and obtained the licence.
The second reported missed opportunity was when car upholstery samples recovered from the body of Ms Rimmer were lost. They were found when the Chem Centre moved to Bentley in 2011. When tested, the samples revealed crucial clues.
The third reported missed opportunity was when a critical forensic item from the body of Ms Glennon, murdered in 1997, was overlooked. It was tested in Britain well after 2004 and revealed “the breakthrough clue”.
A WA Police spokeswoman said: “As this matter is now before the courts and there remains an ongoing investigation WA Police will not be making any further comment”.


Ciara Glennon, Sarah Spiers and Jane Rimmer who all went missing in 1996 and 1997 after attending the Continental Hotel in Bay View Terrace, Claremont after a night out with friends